Curse

countesscorpula · Dec 05, 2006, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Razah as rit = not such a great idea.

If one doesn't own factions, and there are a few out there who don't, Razah is suddenly extremely limited. For example, there are only 2 non elite communing skills s/he can equip. And as s/he can only use one elite, that means no more than 3 communing skills on his/her bar ever. THere are only three restoration skills (not including elites), and four channelling. S/He is a permanently stunted "elite prize" in his/her current state. REMEMBER: There are no CORE skills for rits and sins.

If you didn't have factions you would have no Sin hero, and with no factions, you shouldn't be saddled with a Rit hero either. Making Razah a rit hero was ill-conceived. Clearly slapped together at the last minute in a hack kneed fashion. The manual said Razah was to be variable. I think that is one of the principal beefs. "This is what you will get with the game... (sshhh wait for them to buy it)... JUST KIDDING!!! Ha ha ha. Wasn't that funny kids? You thought you were getting something really neat, but instead you get something you can't effectively use unless you buy or have bought this other product. What do you mean you don't get it?"

so i guess the yolks on us.

ValaOfTheFens · Dec 05, 2006, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Being able to change a hero's primary profession would be invaluble because you'd have access to that primary's primary attribute. Example, you need an Elementalist Searing Flames spammer but can't find one. You could just change your hero's primary attribute to Ele, set the Fire Magic and Energy Storage to 12, and you're in business. The thing is that you wouldn't be able to put runes or insignia on that hero's armor because you'd constantly be changing their primary profession.

countesscorpula · Dec 05, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Sup Vigor, Attunement, Vitae, Reduce poison and dease 20%, reduce bleeding and crip 20%. There you have it, five runes you can permanently leave on Raz. There are generic insignias too.

Also, changing runes isn't that big of a deal. I am forever changing Norgu from Dom to Ill, which means peal one rune off his head and stick on another.

Angel Netherborn · Dec 05, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eviance

Point is, why NOT a variable hero? He STILL could have been a rit when you wanted him to be or something else when you didn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Whats not good about a variable hero?

What about it being a waste of developers' time and resources? The whole of GW codebase probably doesn't allow for and does not expect a variable primary profession for a character. Refactoring it something that does, plus all the necessary supporting changes (armor, attributes, handling equipment, animation, etc.), could likely too much work. Not to mention all the potential bugs this might cause, and all for ONE hero, since I doubt Anet's going to consider allowing all our characters to change primary prof.

generik · Dec 05, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Netherborn

What about it being a waste of developers' time and resources? The whole of GW codebase probably doesn't allow for and does not expect a variable primary profession for a character. Refactoring it something that does, plus all the necessary supporting changes (armor, attributes, handling equipment, animation, etc.), could likely too much work. Not to mention all the potential bugs this might cause, and all for ONE hero, since I doubt Anet's going to consider allowing all our characters to change primary prof.

If that is the case why not just ship an empty box?

Because actually including a game in the box is *gasp* a waste of developers' time and resources! Time that they can better spend in Cajun basking in the sun and eating caviar! If there is so much contention for developers' time, perhaps Anet should do something like actually, you know, hiring more developers? I don't see a single construction worker building a skyscraper, why is Anet doing that?

I don't see how this is hard to implement really, probably just a weekend's effort. And the best path for them to take would be to implement the suggested "Smart armor system" and it would be trivially easy. Of course Anet being so anal is probably worried about how our smart armors is going to cost them 0.01 cents of storage space per account.

Which part of false advertising do you know read? The manual clearly says it is variable, it is not. Duh... So the game is not what it is touted to be. Hmmm, is it really so hard to comprehend?

frojack · Dec 05, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

So what? Someone doesn't own Factions so a Rit hero is pointless. Last I checked, same goes for the assassin. Don't see anyone complaining about that, and who said you needed to use all of your heroes anyway? Last I checked, this one is actually an 'extra' in a stupidly hard special area. This is just Pokemon in GW...
Fair enough, a 'variable' hero might have been more interesting, but come on, it's still just a cheap gimmick. I'm sure Anet 'did' actually change their minds on this one, as soon as they realized how much of a joke the idea actually was. This isn't as big a deal as you people are making it out to be.
The level of petulance within the community is astounding. I want, I want, I want...

Curse You · Dec 05, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

I see no problem with the changing of armour from one profession's to another (runes and insignias are a different thing). They have proven that they can make the armour level of a hero change depending on their level, why not their profession? Also, about the looks, just make all the armour look the same, just change the stats.

From what I can see, it seems to be just about as troublesome as programing a huge realm with high level enemies with complex drop patterns, spawn patterns and quests. Oh wait, they just did that...

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

So what? Someone doesn't own Factions so a Rit hero is pointless. Last I checked, same goes for the assassin. Don't see anyone complaining about that, and who said you needed to use all of your heroes anyway? Last I checked, this one is actually an 'extra' in a stupidly hard special area. This is just Pokemon in GW...
Fair enough, a 'variable' hero might have been more interesting, but come on, it's still just a cheap gimmick. I'm sure Anet 'did' actually change their minds on this one, as soon as they realized how much of a joke the idea actually was. This isn't as big a deal as you people are making it out to be.
The level of petulance within the community is astounding. I want, I want, I want...

I want you to get a clue.

You can only get Zanmai if you have BOTH Factions and Nightfall.

How exactly is the only ritualist hero "extra?"

floppinghog · Dec 05, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

bottom line is, he needs to be able to change his primary profession.

if it wasnt ready to be released and they rushed it out.. then wtf
Gaile had said this update would come along with Razah december right? well i believe she also said as late at mid-december, we got it on the 1st. sounds rushed, no?

all i can say myself is, they best speak up on an update to "finish" this hero, if anything.

ubermancer · Dec 05, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

If that is the case why not just ship an empty box?

QFFT. You can guess why the extra F is in there.

If they have time to code in DANCING HENCHMEN that for some reason TALK TO ME MID COMBAT then they have time to give us some of the core things they promise (some from the Prophecies Beta!). Those being:

Reconnects
Auction House
Variable Hero
etc

4ssassin · Dec 05, 2006, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Hes not variable? dude...worthless. how effective can a rit hero be anyways? i seem to recall my rit henchman in factions being the first ones down anyways. Im not even going to bother getting this guy if hes not changable..but if he was....

I can see i now: me, koss, goren, and Razah charging along the country side forming huge mobs behind us cause of the new Adumb...err....AI.

frojack · Dec 05, 2006, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

I see no problem with the changing of armour from one profession's to another (runes and insignias are a different thing). They have proven that they can make the armour level of a hero change depending on their level, why not their profession? Also, about the looks, just make all the armour look the same, just change the stats.

From what I can see, it seems to be just about as troublesome as programing a huge realm with high level enemies with complex drop patterns, spawn patterns and quests. Oh wait, they just did that...

I want you to get a clue.

You can only get Zanmai if you have BOTH Factions and Nightfall.

How exactly is the only ritualist hero "extra?"

... And you can only have heroes full-stop if you buy Nightfall. Big deal. A known quantity. A useless comment.

The whole damn thing is 'extra'! Just like a lot of other people you seem to be lost in this quagmire of heroes. Ask yourself, how important they are to the game? Is it some big tragedy that your not getting 'exactly' what you want from these drones? Who simply amount to suped-up henchmen, and still possess the same intellect as that of a broken toy that just constantly rams itself into the nearest wall. People are forgetting themselves with these 'machines'. These toys.

Go play with real people. All of you, as patronising as it sounds (apologies for the sensitive types, but it needs saying). This is a team game (supposedly). Playing on your own with bot's makes playing online virtually pointless. In my opinion, heroes are to the detriment of Guild Wars...

Also, most of the presumptions about 'programming' I've read in these forums are akin to me saying "what's the big deal about sending some dudes to the moon?".
The thing is see I know f-all about astronomy and I'm talking complete and utter nonsense...

freekedoutfish · Dec 05, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

As already said, its just a novality idea.

Its not a necessity, its just something people want because they think its a cool idea.

Im guessing Anet didnt do it because they realised the obvious over-powerment of having 4 ele's or 4 necros and so on.

We dont need an adjustable hero. At the end of the day you can have up to 3 of each class now in your party, so what use would they be?

Plus you would need to create a completely unique armor set to them. You couldnt change armor from one profession to another, because the model frame wouldnt fit it.

You couldnt strech the texture for an elemental around a Hero with a frame like a warrior, it would distort. And you couldnt put a warrior texture onto a frame as slim as an elemental, because it wouldnt fit.

These armors are designed for set model shapes.

N E D M · Dec 05, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Plus you would need to create a completely unique armor set to them. You couldnt change armor from one profession to another, because the model frame wouldnt fit it.

You couldnt strech the texture for an elemental around a Hero with a frame like a warrior, it would distort. And you couldnt put a warrior texture onto a frame as slim as an elemental, because it wouldnt fit.

These armors are designed for set model shapes.

Why would the appearance of the hero's armor need to change with his profession?

freekedoutfish · Dec 05, 2006, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by N E D M

Why would the appearance of the hero's armor need to change with his profession?

Im not saying it would.

But some people would obviously expect or want it to, if your going to change its profession.

I was saying such a thing wouldnt be possible.

But if it was done in that way, we would need to create whole new profession armors unique to this character. Alot of un-needed time and effort for a Hero we dont need.

I personally dont even see why we need a changable hero. Its pointless.

So as to why we would need to or want to change its armor; You would have to ask someone who wants this hero to exist.

I was just pointing out an issue with the idea.

Pkest · Dec 05, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

A variable primary hero would have been very nice. I had several ideas for that going round in my head.

Now I am reserving judgement until we hear from Anet as to whether they are still working on completing this or whether it was just an empty promise.

If it turns out they are still working on it then I will wait patiently and actually have a reason to do DOA.

If it turns out to be the latter then I will be severely disappointed but life will go on.

Unfortunately if they don't tell us one way or the other then I fear this thread will continue to degenerate into just another name-calling flamefest.

Emik · Dec 05, 2006, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I personally dont even see why we need a changable hero. Its pointless.

Don't generalise your point of view.
I don't have to point out that people are very disappointed not to have a rit at first and now they add him in a place that for common gamers is almost impossible to do.
Should he in fact be variable most people (yes MOST) would like to make an affert.
As of now i do'nt see it happen.
Also Why a rit in NF endgame?
That's like adding a dervish hero as Factions hero: equally pointless

Mr_T_bot · Dec 05, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

If there is so much contention for developers' time, perhaps Anet should do something like actually, you know, hiring more developers?

Thread over. He wins.

Eviance · Dec 05, 2006, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Netherborn

What about it being a waste of developers' time and resources? The whole of GW codebase probably doesn't allow for and does not expect a variable primary profession for a character. Refactoring it something that does, plus all the necessary supporting changes (armor, attributes, handling equipment, animation, etc.), could likely too much work. Not to mention all the potential bugs this might cause, and all for ONE hero, since I doubt Anet's going to consider allowing all our characters to change primary prof.

My comment was more dirrected at those who said: "But we didn't have a rit hero!" I thought it kinda silly to be fussing that we didn't have a rit hero when it could have potentially been changed to one. Some were acting as if by getting a variable you wouldn't get a rit hero. That was my point.

I have no argument against how difficult it would be to implement. Only way I could see it happening is if they gave it a middle based armor, health and magic that didn't change and the armor could hold whatever rune based on its current primary. *shrugs* Otherwise there would be a lot of armor shopping.

lakeland · Dec 05, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

If that is the case why not just ship an empty box?

Because actually including a game in the box is *gasp* a waste of developers' time and resources! Time that they can better spend in Cajun basking in the sun and eating caviar! If there is so much contention for developers' time, perhaps Anet should do something like actually, you know, hiring more developers? I don't see a single construction worker building a skyscraper, why is Anet doing that?

I don't see how this is hard to implement really, probably just a weekend's effort. And the best path for them to take would be to implement the suggested "Smart armor system" and it would be trivially easy. Of course Anet being so anal is probably worried about how our smart armors is going to cost them 0.01 cents of storage space per account.

Which part of false advertising do you know read? The manual clearly says it is variable, it is not. Duh... So the game is not what it is touted to be. Hmmm, is it really so hard to comprehend?

QFT.

gg.

freekedoutfish · Dec 05, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emik

Don't generalise your point of view.
I don't have to point out that people are very disappointed not to have a rit at first and now they add him in a place that for common gamers is almost impossible to do.
Should he in fact be variable most people (yes MOST) would like to make an affert.
As of now i do'nt see it happen.
Also Why a rit in NF endgame?
That's like adding a dervish hero as Factions hero: equally pointless

If you noticed, or look.

Ive actually made a thread saying to add a Rit Hero to cantha, for those who dont want to trek to get Razah in DoA. I agree Razah is a bad thing and a pointless Hero and in a very bad place. I agree a Rit belongs in factions, and should only be attainable there.

But he exists, so there it is.

Plus if he wasnt a Ritualist, what else could he be? Everyother profession exists.

And I dont remember saying I wouldnt like the idea of a variable Hero. It would be weird, but I wouldnt complain.

I just said I didnt see it working. Everything about it would have to be unique.

Its weapons and armor. It would all have to be adjustable to wich profession he/she was.

Weapons would have to be generic and adjust to which professions he was, otherwise youd have to own countless weapons for him/her.

Armor would have to be generic and change stats automatically, otherwise you would need countless insignias for him/her.

Stuff which said "armor +10 against....[adjust]",
Or "Half casting time of [adjust] spells 20% chance",
etc etc etc....

He or she would be a very expensive and fiddly Hero to use and it wouldn be a simple thing to impliment.

But if they can do it, then cool.

If it was to happen, I also rather it wasnt a human. Perhaps make it some strange DoA humanoid creature which is able to possess many abilities.